It all started with the fly. Live and on camera, President Obama
showed the world what to do when a fly lands on your arm. Use your
hand on your other arm and swat it. One swat and that fly was dead.
With Pence it was an entirely different matter. We all watched
the debate, when a fly landed on top of Pence's head. The fly was
the star of the show, dancing around for all to see. And what did
Pence do? He just stood there. Staring at the camera. Without a
single thought in his head as to what to do.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/23/senate-democrats-
ation-border-bill
I'm sorry, but even after reading this article, I still don't see any proof that Trump had anything to do with the bill being killed.
"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is there any video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" or "Trump gave
a big thumbs-down to house members."
It is better than what we have. Funny how the same people who complain about executive orders one minute are the same ones saying "he can already do that (with an executive order)" the next.
Yea, all we can expect and hope for is for Trump to get elected so he can protect us from illegal immigrants for 4 more years. The senate doesn't want the mess cleaned up - just look at what's in that bill. That bill was going to
legitimize thousands of illegal crossings per day, which would make things difficult for a president who wants to "deport all illegals."
I do not believe he, or Kamala, are "chosen by God."
Beliefs like that when it comes to someone in politics MP>will get you ina lot of trouble.
Relying on a candidate being chosen by God would be a mistake, because we've
got to do a lot more than just chant slogans.
Praying for Trump's victory is the way to go.
I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.
I'm sorry, but even after reading this article, I still don't see any pr that Trump had anything to do with the bill being killed.
"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is there video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" or "Trum gave
a big thumbs-down to house members."
Him bad mouthing and suggesting the GOP vote against the bill was all
over the news. It is not my fault if you don't watch it.
It didn't legitimize illegal crossings. It allowed for a cap on
crossings at legal border crossings. The bill would have been a lot better than what we have now and didn't do anything to stop Republicans from passing something even more strict once Trump got into office.
Seeing how liberal Democrats voted against it because it was "too strict" tells me it was not a bad bill.
Since February, when the bill was killed, every single illegal that has got into the country is equally on the heads of Trump, Johnson, and all
of their cronnies as is is on the head of Biden. It stopped being the "Biden border crisis" at that point.
I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.
All the prayers in the world will come to naught as the
American people have the last and final say.
That's not what I hear, though. I hear "she should have done all the things already that she's promising to do now."
That's what Trump said about her. I'm just saying that she's guilty by association.
There are answers to certain questions that can be inferred:
Q: Why did Joe let in more than 20 million migrants without visas?
A: Because it will create more house seats that only Democrats can fill.
Q: Is Kamala a Democrat, like Joe?
A: Yes.
Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.
Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing about it? A: Nothing.
I do remember a lot of non-supporters blaming Cheney for things that happened while Bush was President, and IIRC Gore also tried taking credit for some things that happened while Clinton was President.
Harris has most certainly been trying to take credit for things she
thinks are good, while distancing herself from things she thinks have
not turned out good, that resulted from Biden's Presidency.
(2) we now have his VP (who is the new candidate) showing up at places and events where you would normally expect to be seeing the President.
If you accept credit, even if it is something you didn't really accomplish yourself, you open yourself up for blame, too.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/23/senate-democr ation-border-bill
I'm sorry, but even after reading this article, I still don't see any proof that Trump had anything to do with the bill being killed.
"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is there any video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" or "Trump gave a big thumbs-down to house members."
Q: Why did Joe let in more than 20 million migrants without visas?
A: Because it will create more house seats that only Democrats can fi
I still don't know where that 20 million number comes from. It certainly isn't an accurate representation of the immigrant population. The total immigrant population (all nationalities, including illegals) is
somewhere around 47-48 million, and it was 45 million under Trump.
That's a net gain of 3 million people over 4 years.
I did see a Pew research number somewhere that said the total illegal population was something like 11 million. That did not happen in 4 years.
Q: Is Kamala a Democrat, like Joe?
A: Yes.
Do you also have two arms and two legs, just like Joe?
Certainly that's a source of unending consternation.
Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.
Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote
down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not as true as we'd like.
Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing about i A: Nothing.
On THIS point, I'm in 100% agreement. Democrats have done embarrassingly little to solve much of anything in quite a while.
"At the behest of Trump.." <- That doesn't mean anything to me. Is th any video evidence? The article doesn't say "Trump was in the room" o "Trump gave a big thumbs-down to house members."
Trump, at the time, was very vocal about taking credit for the bill failing. I do recall reading an article then where it named specific people and phone calls made, but my Google-fu is weak today.
Him bad mouthing and suggesting the GOP vote against the bill was all over the news. It is not my fault if you don't watch it.
The news isn't a communications device for the president and congress. I don't
believe that Trump forced his opinion on anybody. And if he did, then there would have to be more to that story, like what violent thing did he threaten t
do to Mike Johnson if the legislation had passed? "You better listen to me boy." lol
It didn't legitimize illegal crossings. It allowed for a cap on crossings at legal border crossings. The bill would have been a lot better than what we have now and didn't do anything to stop Republicans from passing something even more strict once Trump got into office.
The way I remember reading it was "a cap on ILLEGAL border crossings."
Seeing how liberal Democrats voted against it because it was "too strict"
tells me it was not a bad bill.
Not bad for us but bad for them, and that's ultimately bad for us too because we need a few of their votes.
Since February, when the bill was killed, every single illegal that has got into the country is equally on the heads of Trump, Johnson, and all of their cronnies as is is on the head of Biden. It stopped being the "Biden border crisis" at that point.
I just don't see the Trump pressure.
I do remember a lot of non-supporters blaming Cheney for things that happened while Bush was President, and IIRC Gore also tried taking credit
for some things that happened while Clinton was President.
To a far lesser degree, I agree. I think my original statement (or intent, at least) was to say that I've never seen it this pronounced.
Harris has most certainly been trying to take credit for things she thinks are good, while distancing herself from things she thinks have not turned out good, that resulted from Biden's Presidency.
I admittedly have not been paying very close attention to her campaign, so I don't recall what those wins are that she's sharing credit for. (That's also partly because I don't think the administration really had any big wins in the
first place.)
If you accept credit, even if it is something you didn't really accomplish yourself, you open yourself up for blame, too.
Very fair assessment. After this conversation, I'll definitely be paying more attention to things like that.
Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.
Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not as true as we'd like.
Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing about it? A: Nothing.
On THIS point, I'm in 100% agreement. Democrats have done embarrassingly littl
to solve much of anything in quite a while.
Again, not defending Harris. I'm saying on a lot of this stuff, there's nothin
to defend. The primary role of the VP is not to pass legislation.
Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not as true as we'd like.
Mike tried to make that same argument but I guess I'll have to say this: it's been debunked.
Ex presidents don't control anything. Trump doesn't control
congress. He doesn't have "pull." If ex presidents controlled congress, which they don't, then what would the purpose of having a congress be?
I'm talking about undocumented migrants; people without background
checks. Not "immigrants." I don't know where the numbers come from
either, but they are often reported by the media and they range from 7
to 20 million, while Trump has suggested that Biden may have let in
closer to 40 million undocumented migrants.
Also, this isn't about an "immigrant population," this is about the
number of foreigners who entered the USA without a visa while Biden was president.
I appreciate that but listen to yourself: illegal population? That is ridiculous. Think about it: 1) there hasn't been a census count since years before Biden opened the border 2) even if we did a census count yesterday, how many people are going to report it on paper that they are illegal immigrants? 3) there's no way to accurately measure the number
of illegal immigrants.
This means: Joe wants the border open, he has the same handlers as
Kamala, so therefore Kamala wants the border open too.
Q: Does Trump control congress?
A: No.
Interestingly enough, he did have enough pull to get congress to vote down an immigration bill that both sides liked, seemingly because he needed the immigration platform for his campaign. So maybe that's not true as we'd like.
Mike tried to make that same argument but I guess I'll have to say this: it's been debunked. Ex presidents don't control anything. Trump doesn't control congress. He doesn't have "pull." If ex presidents controlled congress, which they don't, then what would the purpose of having a congress be?
Q: If Trump IS controlling congress, what are Democrats doing ab A: Nothing.
On THIS point, I'm in 100% agreement. Democrats have done embarrassin little to solve much of anything in quite a while.
It's not just Democrats, there are no useful Republicans either. Not in congress at least.
I do it every day, sometimes twice a day.
All the prayers in the world will come to naught as the
American people have the last and final say.
Maybe some people need 4 more years of destruction. Maybe the Democrats are
doing that good of a job hiding everything from them.
It's hard to remember all that stuff, but it's easier to remember a narrative about Trump killing the bill as a campaign strategy. (Trying
to help you!)
Again, not defending Harris. I'm saying on a lot of this stuff, there's nothing to defend. The primary role of the VP is not to pass legislation.
One place where the VP does have responsibility and that could be used against them is in instances where they cast the Senate tie-breaker
vote. I am not aware of what, if any, bills that VP Harris has voted on.
That begs the question, then: if nobody can provide valid data, how can
we attribute anything to anyone? Either we're back to just making things up (which isn't above anyone, especially lately), or someone, somewhere, is gathering data and extrapolating numbers based on a combination of historical context, statistical processes, and a light dusting of conjecture.
Okay, I'm listening to myself. My self says that there is a valid, rough approximation of the entire population of the country, including people who aren't here legally. My self also says that political statements
that include numbers meant to incite fear and anger are grossly inaccurate.
The latest DHS report that I could quickly pull up lists "unauthorized immigrant population" (which, again, are the people we're both talking about) from 2018 to 2022.
That report also lists an approximate number of 11 million in 2022, with an annual entry estimate of just over 2 million. They do list the methodology for coming to those figures if you're interested.
All that aside, if, by your statement, we can't accurately measure it,
how can anyone blame the current administration for not improving it?
I did address this in another post. At some point I would really like to find the article that quoted someone as receiving a phone call from
Trump where he "asked" the congressman to shoot down the bill.
Are you willing to die for Trump? One person in Butler, Pennsylvania
did. And I am *not* talking about the bonafide nutcase who took out a piece of Trump's ear.
You see, this was a renewal of Moses being called at the Burning
Bush on Mt. Sinai, in Exodus 3:5. I'll let you and Bj”rn read the
passage so y'all will know what I am talking about. Anyway, this
is when Moses goes down before the Lord, and the Lord says, "Take
off your shoes, for the place you are on is holy ground."
Now who is that poor soul who lost his life on Trump's account?
And who are the kids he left behind? And also his wife who is now
a widow?
The core of the issue on my side is that I don't think immigration is a problem in the first place. Not for Obama, nor for Trump, nor for Biden. It's a completely fabricated issue, and I didn't place much importance
on committing the specifics of that to memory.
Here's my direct question to you: if I go to the trouble of locating the article (which I'm quite sure I read), and it says that Trump asked any congressional member directly to kill the bill, will you then concede
that Trump holds some influential control over congress?
My interpretation of your prior statements leads me to think the answer
to that question is "no," which tells me I should spend my time doing something more enjoyable than scouring the internet for an article I really don't care about.
PS: I care less about narratives. Especially the immigration one in the first place.
[...]That begs the question, then: if nobody can provide valid data, how c we attribute anything to anyone? Either we're back to just making thi
historical context, statistical processes, and a light dusting of conjecture.
We can't take anyone's word for it that there are illegals lurking
around, but just look at the clear evidence. For example, police
recently arrested an illegal in my county who was wanted for 29 murders
in Peru. I can't confirm that he really is an illegal immigrant, I can't confirm that he killed anybody in Peru, but the fact that a story about
an illegal immigrant fugitive being found in my county ALMOST serves as proof that we really do have some illegals roaming around, and it ALMOST serves as proof that some of them are foreign fugitives.
I don't trust anyone's statistics or their news reports. I just lean one way or another when I start to see correlations.
What's more important is how to deport them all.
Aaron Thomas wrote to Randall Schad <=-
It's hard to remember all that stuff, but it's easier to remember a narrative about Trump killing the bill as a campaign strategy. (Trying
to help you!)
[...]That begs the question, then: if nobody can provide valid data, we attribute anything to anyone? Either we're back to just makin
historical context, statistical processes, and a light dusting o conjecture.
We can't take anyone's word for it that there are illegals lurking around, but just look at the clear evidence. For example, police recently arrested an illegal in my county who was wanted for 29 murde in Peru. I can't confirm that he really is an illegal immigrant, I ca confirm that he killed anybody in Peru, but the fact that a story abo an illegal immigrant fugitive being found in my county ALMOST serves proof that we really do have some illegals roaming around, and it ALM serves as proof that some of them are foreign fugitives.
I don't trust anyone's statistics or their news reports. I just lean way or another when I start to see correlations.
I can't tell at this point if you're being sardonic or serious, and I'd rather not have to spend energy working that out.
I did address this in another post. At some point I would really like to find the article that quoted someone as receiving a phone call from Trump where he "asked" the congressman to shoot down the bill.
An article can't prove what's being alleged. Unless it has text message death threats from Trump to the house GOP.
An article can't prove what's being alleged. Unless it has text message threats from Trump to the house GOP.
When Trump brags about being responsbile at a rally, that is proof enough for me. Certainly, our rock who is chosen by God wouldn't lie to us!
Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-
Oh! I didn't know it was at a Trump rally. But Trump is allowed to talk
to members of congress. Where is the proof that Trump demanded congress members to vote nay on the bill? Did he threaten them with violence or
did he threaten to ruin their career?
That report also lists an approximate number of 11 million in 2022,
with an annual entry estimate of just over 2 million. They do list
the methodology for coming to those figures if you're interested.
What's more important is how to deport them all.
Are you willing to die for Trump? One person in Butler, Pennsylvania
did. And I am *not* talking about the bonafide nutcase who took out a
piece of Trump's ear.
He didn't die for Trump.
He died because of Democrat rhetoric.
You see, this was a renewal of Moses being called at the Burning
Bush on Mt. Sinai, in Exodus 3:5. I'll let you and Bj”rn read the
passage so y'all will know what I am talking about. Anyway, this
is when Moses goes down before the Lord, and the Lord says, "Take
off your shoes, for the place you are on is holy ground."
I'm glad you agree with me about Trump being chosen by God.
Now who is that poor soul who lost his life on Trump's account?
And who are the kids he left behind? And also his wife who is now
a widow?
If Democrats weren't such a big, big, big failure, then the shooting victim
wouldn't have been at the Trump rally.
Nobody would care who who's president.
An article can't prove what's being alleged. Unless it has text message
threats from Trump to the house GOP.
When Trump brags about being responsbile at a rally, that is proof enough
for me. Certainly, our rock who is chosen by God wouldn't lie to us!
Oh! I didn't know it was at a Trump rally. But Trump is allowed to talk to members of congress. Where is the proof that Trump demanded congress members t
vote nay on the bill? Did he threaten them with violence or did he threaten to
ruin their career?
He didn't die for Trump.
Yes, he did. Trump said it himself, calling it "Divine intervention."
The term "Divine Intervention" means somebody had to die for Trump.
Had nobody been stricken dead, Trump would no longer be with us.
So a good man had to die, leaving behind a wife and two daughters,
for you to get your jollies watching an orange clown on stage.
Earth calling Aaron. Earth calling Aaron. Trump did not blame
Democrats or Republicans or even Reptilians for what happenened.
He called it "Divine Intervention" - thus making God a killer.
God is a cold-blooded killer, so you gotta believe. Or else.
Is that the Trump mantra?
When Trump brags about being responsbile at a rally, that is proof enough
for me. Certainly, our rock who is chosen by God wouldn't lie to u
Oh! I didn't know it was at a Trump rally. But Trump is allowed to talk members of congress. Where is the proof that Trump demanded congress mem t
vote nay on the bill? Did he threaten them with violence or did he threa to
ruin their career?
Trump bragged at a rally that he was the one responsible for killing the bill. I posted links to that the other day.
Still sounds like you are calling Trump a liar.
He didn't die for Trump.
Yes, he did. Trump said it himself, calling it "Divine LL>intervention."
It's not Trump's choice to make.
The term "Divine Intervention" means somebody had to die for Trump.
Had nobody been stricken dead, Trump would no longer be with us.
So a good man had to die, leaving behind a wife and two daughters,
for you to get your jollies watching an orange clown on stage.
Is this going to stop you from going to concerts?
Earth calling Aaron. Earth calling Aaron. Trump did not blame
Democrats or Republicans or even Reptilians for what happenened.
He called it "Divine Intervention" - thus making God a killer.
I get what you're saying now. Trump says God saved him, but under that logic, God didn't save the other man. However, that other man is a hero who
saved
his family and Trump, and he's also a hero for attending Trump rallies.
God is a cold-blooded killer, so you gotta believe. Or else.
Is that the Trump mantra?
But I don't think you understand that the awaken don't adhere strictly to anyone's guidelines.
We love Trump, but we'll disagree with him on certain things.
But I don't think you understand that the awaken don't adhere strictl anyone's guidelines.
A God that has no guidelines as to what to believe? My, my.
That's a new one. Tell me, please, what exactly does Trump believe
in? A God that let's you do whatever you want? With no concept of
good or wrong?
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